and important to do. >> host: one other note on that. president obama met with, obviously, the chinese president when he was here recently, and they discussed intellectual property enforcement. the president only received a very small concession which was that the chinese government itself would take care to avoid purchasing pirated software. what can be done to convey the importance of this issue to the chinas and russias that pose a problem? >> guest: well, that is important. if china actually does that, which we'll wait and see if they do, that would be a good first step because if you, if you are imposing that ethic on the people who are charged with enforcing the laws in china, then they might have a greater appreciation for the rampant amount of piracy that's taking place in china. far worse than, i would say, any other country in the world. recently, steve balmer, the ceo of microsoft, came and talked to me and a few others and said that comparing china to russia which has a bad reputation itself, they believe that the rate -- now, china's a much more populace country than russia, but the